-=== Psybernet Digest ===- Number 1 Volume 1 date May 1994 ///// /// / / ///// ////// ///// / // ////// ///// / / / / / / / / / / / // / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / ///// / / ///// ////// ///// / / / ////// / / / / / / / / / / // / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / /// / ///// ////// / / / / ////// / //// / /// ////// /// ///// / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / ////// / / / / / / / / / / / / / //// / / / / / / / / / / / / / //// / /// ////// /// / C O N T E N T S. 1:-Introduction --- The Psybernet Digest 2:-Main Feature --- Sick Ideas 3:-Psybernet News --- All the latest 4:-Editorial --- Technology & Soul --- WL 5:-Psybernet Library Update --- A summary 6:-From the Psybernet BBS --- Serious, Moving & memorable 7:-Resources in Psyberspace --- Related lists, 'zines, places 8:-Psybernet BBS & Echo --- The current description ////////////////////////////////// / 1:-Introduction / ////////////////////////////////// --- The Psybernet Digest --- Psybernet Digest is published as an online magazine by Psybernet Limited it is produced by Walter Logeman. The contents are largely drawn from the Psybernet BBS, Christchurch, New Zealand. Subscriptions to the Psybernet Digest can be obtained by contacting Walter Logeman, see contact points in item 8:-Psybernet BBS & Echo. They can be obtained by file request from the Psybernet BBS. Enquire about bound copies with colour graphics. Contributions to the Digest are welcome and will be included at the discretion of the Editor. What is this 'zine about? The exploration of psyberspace, the soul of cyberspace. For more details see the description of the Psybernet BBS & Echo below. == Acknowledgments == Thanks to all those who have contributed to the BBS and this Digest. Thanks to Reg Smith for his pioneering work on the board, To Stanley Richards, Sue Townsend and Ruby Wadeson who have put in so many hours in these early stages of the Psybernet project. == Copyright == This Psybernet Digest may be reproduced in its present form for non profit use. ////////////////////////////////// / 2:-Main Feature / ////////////////////////////////// --- Sick Ideas --- There are certain themes that will recur in cyberspace over and over. Obvious ones are the effect of the medium on our identity, censorship, ownership of ideas etc. One that I have found of interest each time is the question of how ideas affect the world and vice versa. My background in Marxism inclines me to the belief that the world affects ideas, and that ideas are just a side product. This is one of the discussions that I am involved with on the BBS at this moment and I will post four messages here. The main contributor is Stanley Richards. He writes with a Jungian twist, with a neoplatonic tinge. (If I have that wrong I'll no doubt hear.) Here are the messages some in an abbreviated form: Message 1: A new posting from Stanley, here in full: Area # 3 ( PSYBERNET_ECHO ) TO: All MSG # 6921, Apr-6-94 11:19pm SUBJECT: Sick Ideas Wednesday 6 April Psybernet Echo Dear All, I have not contributed much to our BBS lately because I have been busy doing some writing - still am. So I thought I'd give you a little sample of what is going on in my diseased brain. It's a quote from a book which I'm finishing called 'Many Places of the Soul'. I'll put it in the library later if anyone is interested QUOTE BEGINS * * * * * * * * * * * * Emptiness and the feeling of 'nothing', so well explored by modern existentialism is a soul state, contrary to the way they imagine it in their philosophy. We do not need to objectify it into an ontological truth, but rather to see it as psychological condition, one of the soul's fantasies of the loss. It is, as the existentialists have well observed, a state of anxiety, dread and angst. Nietzsche started it all off by telling us that God was dead; a not too dissimilar experience to when the ancient world was told that the pagan gods were dead. Both times there followed a riotous proliferation of superstitious religions and alternative occult practices! Both these times in history there was great psychological uncertainty, instability and the dread that loss of soul brings with it, a widespread feeling of dis-ease. Both times, rationalism was very strong among the intellectuals: Stoicism in Hellenistic and Roman times and the so-called scientific attitude in ours. At these times the soul then returns from the repressed as literal beliefs in astrology, magic, talismans, witchcraft, spells (positive affirmations) - all of which are very popular in the our New Age milieu. Such is the defensive anxiety against nothingness that these beliefs take on the ponderous and weighty seriousness of superstition, without poetry or imagination, and, worst of all, without, irony, charm or wit. Even so, they have something of soul in them because they are so dramatic and urgent and frankly pathological. The gods return as sick ideas that demand attention. It is interesting to ask what is a 'sick idea'. To get a grip on it lets compare it to a psychosomatic symptom. A real psychosomatic symptom has a component of fantasy that is not recognised as such. In our culture the psyche by itself does not impress us. We have no religious mythology by which it can. So the psyche transforms itself or expresses itself through something which does impress us - a bodily symptom. The psyche magnifies itself through the physical symptom so that we can feel something of the depth, something power of the psyche and our helplessness in relations to it. The problem, however, is still that the whole phenomena is cut off from its roots. We take the symptom literally, which means that we still do not recognise the imaginative or divine element in it. A sick idea is the same - and this goes all the way from 'Marxism' to a compulsive idea that 'God is Love' or 'the stars foretell'. It is not whether an idea is true, but the style with which it is held, whether the idea is cut off from its roots in the mundus imaginalis. The question is: does it recognise itself as part of the creative imagination or not. For the soul, it doesn't matter whether an idea is true or false, but whether it remembers. Does the idea remember its origin. Bastard ideas have no family, no roots; they are sick abandoned children who are likely to grow into delinquents. Because such ideas have no consciousness of their lineage they acquire an overgrown ego. Ideas are persons, like ourselves, who need a consciousness of their deeper connections. Literalism is basically dissociation, so that an idea believes that it stands alone as truth, signifies truth, with no cognition of its metaphorical origins, of the family of ideas from which it has sprung, which itself has its beginning in mythos. Ideas spring from archetypal roots and those ideas that retain a consciousness of that, illuminate the psyche; those that don't cast very deep shadows. For the psyche it is not the truth of the idea which is at stake, but whether the idea sees through its own literal meaning. If you cannot see the metaphoric and polymorphous nature of ideas and that even the most abstract philosophy has its mythic origins, then you are in very great danger of being possessed. Sweep your mental cupboard clean of mythology so that you can think clearly and what happens is that a mythic devil will rush in to fill the vacuum. This very thing happen in the 18th century Enlightenment. They threw out the church and all the superstitious thinking that went with it and in flew Apollo with his clear light and his distance from everything to do with anima. For all the great intellectuals of the day, this was wonderful. Much as a man who has rid himself of a woman who continually confuses and clouds his thoughts suddenly feels a lift of euphoria and freedom, the empiricist philosophers of that time felt a new clarity of thought. At last the world could be understood and managed for the welfare of human kind without the clap-trap of superstition. But each archetype has a shadow, a dark side, what Hillman has called the infirmitas of the archetype. The Christian religion certainly had its shadow, but so did the new religion of science. And its shadow was the fact that it was just as monotheistic, just as literal, just as dissociated from the psyche, just as unconscious of its mythic roots, just as unpsychological you might say, as the religion that preceded it. We realise all this now because we've seen how dissociated science has made the planet sick. Sick ideas are non-transparent. Their dense shadows are not simply that they produce unfortunate outcomes. Where an idea will carry us can never be predicted anyway. No, the sickness of the shadow is its very denseness, when it becomes concretised, solid like matter. The warning sign is when an idea becomes important, when it begins to matter. Ideas that matter too much have become solid and have lost their connection to fancy and fantasy. Ideas that cannot fly should be laid to rest. And all firmly held opinions should be melted down for re-cycling. * * * * * * * * * * * * QUOTE ENDS Best, Stanley. -- END OF MESSAGE -- --++-=<*>****>>>>>0<<<<<****<*>=-++-- Message 2: Walter responds: FROM: Walter Logeman Area # 3 ( PSYBERNET_ECHO ) TO: Stanley Richards MSG # 9930, Apr-17-94 1:36pm SUBJECT: Sick Ideas Hello Stanley, [Material removed -- Ed.] I am seeing that in the section from your book a significant theme is the split, dissociation, divorce between . . . many things all amounting to the same split: Mythos and literalism [Material removed --- some will come up as quotes in the next message - Ed] It is as if there is a soulworld bursting at the seams for expression and anything will do, science, religion, tools, dreams. The stuff of soul will come whether we invite it or not, are ready or not. In other words once we have the knack, we can 'see through' anything. The soulworld is what it is, it depends on how we treat it that makes us sick or not. Of course that sickness is a Good Thing, without it, when we inevitably get trapped in literalism, it is our salvation. [Material removed -- Ed.] You mentioned Marxism. Now I have always appreciated it for its soul. They call it scientific socialism, but it is an attempt to live on the edge between determinism & freedom. Men (sic) make history but not under conditions of their choosing. (A rough quote from somewhere) Engels wrote a book called Anti-Utopia which had a big impact on me as one who has had a go at creating many new communities including this one in cyberspace. The guts of that is that we cant just use the stuff of dreams as a blue print for making a community. At the same time they write a 'Manifesto' You see how these men were grappling with this whole question before their ideas became dogma and thus sick? I think of psychodrama, novels, the ALTERWORLD where we suspend all disbelief and pigs can fly. In the eternal and ever present psyche, invisible as it is to the eye of a camera pigs too can fly. Can we thus make communities of our choosing in cyberspace? Here we are creating virtual reality. Thus it would seem that we are very removed from the 'material base' Here, if ever, we can make worlds that are made of the stuff of dreams. But can we? How does the hardware determine the power structures of cyberspace? Virtual communities exist at the mercy of anyone who pulls the plug in the machine. However nothing is really a material base is it? New Zealand is not a material thing. It is a heap of atoms in flux (& even that is a scientific metaphor) New Zealand exists as a fantasy in our consciousness, laws, treaties, conceptual boundaries, names, notions of who is in and who is out of the nation. As you say these fantasies go back into myth. What is the origin of the five mile limit? What is a Mile? The fish don't care! [Material removed -- Ed.] I am seeing that virtual reality is a bit like the mythos, and EDR more of a literal world. I am needing to treat the EDR as primary. If I don't then my flesh & blood suffers. VR is built on EDR. Ah I cant help it Stanley, I am gripped by that idea! You see I am with you here, I see through my possessor. I am a worshipper of Krishna again and the gods again have won. However, that is the temple, & here is the prayer, to the life force: May we ride your tempests with love & joy tame your excesses with defiance, courage & artistry compensate your idiocy with compassion wisdom and power. May you not be too hard on us as we do what we have to do. Ah Stanley, here we are again, same discussion spiralling on. What does all this mean for me & you? Is it that you need to let go of all old dogma that you see through everything, being a dogmatist perhaps at heart? This could well be a projection . Is it that I will never stop trying to change the world, looking for the breast? Love Walter -- END OF MESSAGE -- --++-=<*>****>>>>>0<<<<<****<*>=-++-- Message 3: FROM: Stanley Richards Area # 3 ( PSYBERNET_ECHO ) TO: Walter MSG # 10102, Apr-22-94 10:55am SUBJECT: sick ideas 19 April 1994 Dear Walter WL> I am seeing that in the section from your book a significant WL> theme is the split, dissociation, divorce between . . . many WL> things all amounting to the same split: WL> Mythos and literalism Yes, Yes, NOW I want to say here: The ontology I'm AGAINST says: There are two kinds of being: one is fantasy and the other is reality. We can tell the difference between them because in fantasy there is no necessity; in reality there is. We use *necessity* in the sense of *given*. That's really what we mean by *concrete*, *out there*, *real*. ie It is THUS and not otherwise; and no matter how much we wish or fantasise, it does not alter FACTS. The laws of science, of economics, history, the hardness of a rock, the fact has Jane HAS been abused etc. These are what we call facts. They cannot be taken away or deleted. They are GIVEN. We are dealing with brute fact, with necessity. Not logical necessity, but ontological necessity: 'being that cannot be otherwise'. The argument goes on: the other kind of being is fantasy or imagination. This exists in a different way: fantasies happen, but there is no necessity in them. Any fantasy can be otherwise - and that includes ideas, of course. (I use 'fantasy' and 'idea' interchangeably). Any idea or fantasy can be changed; there is no necessity in their existence or non-existence. The whole of reality would be exactly the same if any given fantasy did not exist. And any fantasy we feel we cannot change, we go into therapy until we can. A fantasy can cease to exist or be change into something else at our decision. If we can't, something is wrong. A fantasy should not and does not have necessity in it. All we have to do is think differently or fantasise differently. That's how a fantasy differs from a rock. The only difference between a fact and a fantasy is the element of necessity. That's how we judge whether something is real or imagined. Faced with a rock - if we can make it disappear or if it changes into a lizard, it's fantasy. ! If we kick and it hurts our toe, if it stubbornly exists, it's reality. Real rocks have a inherent necessity - they do not just disappear or turn into lizards. If they do, they lack that inherent givenness which distinguishes them from fantasy. The necessity inherent in a 'real' rock also means that it doesn't and cannot change BY ITSELF into a lizard. The rock is not free. Fantasy rocks are. In the fantasy world both ourselves and rocks are free - and so are pigs free to fly! So goes the argument (if it is ever clearly articulated). But what it misses is that fantasies and ideas DO have necessity in them. It is purely an assumption that because fantasy rocks BEHAVE differently from what we call 'real rocks' that there is no necessity in that behaviour. A dream rock behaves the way it does. The dream rock turns into a lizard. That is PRECISELY what it turns into - not into a cow or an elephant, but into a lizard - not a pink lizard or a red lizard, but into precisely THIS green lizard. The only validation for my position in this is a pragmatic one: dream analysis doesn't work unless you respect the precision of the image. IE. The dream intends PRECISELY this image. For some reason it is absolutely NECESSARY that this THIS rock turn into precisely THIS green lizard. A dream image knows its history, it knows its imaginal origin, even if we don't. Ideas have an origin too. My whole point about sick ideas is that they have lost their memory. Memory is the one thing that chains you to necessity. Memory is your past and you cannot change your past. Like Hillman's question: to which tree does an idea belong: every idea has tree from which it has grown, a past. The ideas of Jung grow on the Socratic\Platonic tree; scientific ideas grow on the Ionian\Democrates tree; Astrology grows on the Zoroastrian\Stoic tree; Medicine on the Asclepios\Hippocratic tree and so on. But ideas, like people get sick when they lose their memory. People think they are responsible for their fantasies. They've got this strange, manic, idea that they created them. Their fantasies can't remember their own roots. So they don't feel the archetypal necessity. One doesn't have new ideas - ideas have new ideas!!! There are thoughts that are to be thought. The gods give birth. Also without feeling the gods at work we don't realise when we are nailed by necessity. . But in our egocentricity at all cost the manic defence called *choice* must be maintained. We think we choose what is to be thought. But the imaginal is not free. It is where you meet your fate. That the fantasy world has its own necessity is demonstrated by its self-generated genealogy. Without it, Camillo's Memory Theatre would never have happened, together with the whole Renaissance effort to line up the archetypes in a sensible order. Astronomy too is the metaphor for this celestial necessity. But I think we must always remember that necessity or the GIVEN is always half hidden - we are never sure of it, corresponding to Plato's idea The Receptacle, Ananke, Necessity. The hiddenness of celestial or archetypal necessity is the attraction for astrology where Harmarmone (fate) can all be worked out. That's why it is better to bow to the hiddenness and respectfully acknowledge the gods even though we don't quite know what they are up to. WL> It would therefore be possible to have science with soul and WL> religion with none. In fact a lot of scientist see their WL> theory as myth and theologians see their perceptions as science. Oh Absolutely! No question. WL> The split is between the ontologies, and you subscribe to the WL> first. This is a little strange to grasp because you speak as WL> if the ideas are very real, people in fact, who will not WL> tolerate the nasties who say they do not exist. When you say WL> that, you are speaking metaphorically, and thus the creatures WL> of the soul are not going to get you, you have literally WL> quietened them by not taking them literally! No psychosomatic WL> diseases or ideas. Perhaps you do not subscribe to the first WL> but see through them all, and then 'see through' that as well. Well, nice point. If I'm all stuck on this fate and necessity business it does sound as though I am taking it all very literally. And from this way of looking I am, I have to confess! But each world does seem to have its own necessity, doesn't it? Marx's world only differs from Apollo's in that it has a different kind of necessity. What we religiously call 'the world out there' is only more convincing because we have lost the power of, and our servitude to, 'the world within'. [Material removed -- Ed.] WL> Engels wrote a book called WL> Anti-Utopia which had a big impact on me as one who has had a WL> go at creating many new communities including this one in WL> cyberspace. The guts of that is that we cant just use the WL> stuff of dreams as a blue print for making a community. At the WL> same time they write a 'Manifesto' You see how these men were WL> grappling with this whole question before their ideas became WL> dogma and thus sick? Absolutely! You can't just use the stuff of dreams to make a community, because dreams operate under an entirely different necessity. Obviously they saw necessity at work in history and society, and yet they write a dream-manifesto - we are doing the same thing for psychology. Whenever we speak of the gods we are speaking of necessity at work in the soul. Like them we are wrestling on the edge of freedom and determinism. But we have to emphasis determinism because everyone is so stuck on freedom, ie positivism. I suppose, in a way, that was the same for the early Marxists, would you say? They were up against the 18th century idea that reason could solve everything. The Social Contract - supposing that society was built on reason. From THAT point of view, Marx's analysis showed that society was built on irrational necessity. ie: reason did NOT determine how society evolved. WL> I think of psychodrama, novels, the ALTERWORLD where we suspend WL> all disbelief and pigs can fly. In the eternal and ever WL> present psyche, invisible as it is to the eye of a camera pigs WL> too can fly. Can we thus make communities of our choosing in WL> cyberspace? Here we are creating virtual reality. Thus it WL> would seem that we are very removed from the 'material base' WL> Here, if ever, we can make worlds that are made of the stuff of WL> dreams. But can we? How does the hardware determine the power WL> structures of cyberspace? Virtual communities exist at the WL> mercy of anyone who pulls the plug in the machine. Removed from the material base are we, or are we not, free of necessity ? But the material base isn't the only place where fate operates. We can imagine pigs flying as a defiance of natural necessity. We imagine a world where anything can happen. Freedom! That is the one thing we like to believe... that in the imaginal world we are free. And talking of flying..... That's the Icarus myth isn't it? Daedelus, his father, reminded him of natural necessity: 'If you fly too high, Icarus, Helios the Sun will melt the wax holding the feathers to your wings.' But for Icarus everything was possible. Ironically, his very sense of freedom and invulnerability to necessity was exactly what determined his fate. [Material removed -- Ed.] WL> I am seeing that virtual reality is a bit like the mythos, and WL> EDR more of a literal world. I am needing to treat the EDR as WL> primary. If I don't then my flesh & blood suffers. VR is WL> built on EDR. Ah I cant help it Stanley, I am gripped by that WL> idea! Yes, it is I'm sure. Putting this into the language I've been using here: EDR is the necessary condition of VR. [Material removed -- Ed.] WL> a dogmatist perhaps at heart? Oh Yes.. it's so true. An old dogmatist at heart! I fight him He's the is one of me that is so materialist, stubborn, literal, and anal, drowned by a sea of facts, enthused by science and progress and the absolute finality of death, an atheist, an anti-spiritualist, an historical determinist, a debunker of the irrational, a champion of the Sceptics, that I almost still believe in the Briti Shempire. Gawd Save Her Majesty, that what I always say. And still say. And what does it mean for you, this discussion that goes spiralling on and on? I know I learn a great deal from it. Well, perhaps not that I learn so much as I push deeper into it And I know for you it is not just a head trip. You are gripped by it. It demands you! WL> Is it that I will never stop trying to change the world, looking for the breast? Not just any old breast Walter, but the Cosmic Breast! With V and ED Love Stanley -- END OF MESSAGE -- --++-=<*>****>>>>>0<<<<<****<*>=-++-- Message 4: FROM: Walter Logeman Area # 3 ( PSYBERNET_ECHO ) TO: Stanley Richards MSG # 10171, Apr-23-94 7:53pm SUBJECT: Re: sick ideas Hello Stanley, SR> Yes, Yes, NOW I want to say here: The ontology I'm AGAINST SR> says: There are two kinds of being: one is fantasy and the SR> other is reality. You amplify that very fully in a great passage. Did you notice how Miles in his conversation with me came up with the idea of creating new conceptual worlds! Interesting how the threads are parallelling again. I'll quote some more of what you are AGAINST: SR> Any idea or fantasy can be changed; there is SR> no necessity in their existence or non-existence. The whole of SR> reality would be exactly the same if any given fantasy did not SR> exist. And any fantasy we feel we cannot change, we go into SR> therapy until we can. A fantasy can cease to exist or be change SR> into something else at our decision. God I am against that too! I have never seen it put so clearly! This puts RET, CBT, Loise Hay, NLP, the whole idea of positive thinking etc., all on the scrap heap in a fell swoop. SR> So goes the argument (if it is ever clearly SR> articulated). I have never seen it so well articulated, It sounds convincing! That is the trouble with it isn't it that it is Soooooo convincing. SR> But what it misses is that fantasies SR> and ideas DO have necessity in them. Let me put it this way: +-----------------------------------------------------+ | | | Fantasies and ideas have necessity in them. | | | | --- Stanley Richards | | | +-----------------------------------------------------+ I think I have grasped that, and it is crucial. I can't resist comment on this: SR> But in our egocentricity at all cost the SR> manic defence called *choice* must be maintained. We think SR> we choose what is to be thought. I can just hear that style of therapy that denies all of that. Someone says they were stuck in a relationship, Therapist: 'You chose! to make yourself stuck!' Agggghhh! SR> But the imaginal is not SR> free. It is where you meet your fate. Put a box around that one! [Material removed -- Ed.] I apply this in my work like this: A client spends all session seemingly on trivia, I know their body is wracked with pain and unexpressed tension & feeling, they are 'avoiding' the 'real' issues. Now I have the faith that the psyche is going as fast as it can. The trivia is perhaps biding time for the person to attend to something else before the 'real' issues can be attended to. Note the word can. I sit there & think the person CAN'T do more than they are doing. I call this the can't that therapists won't see. You know when they say: 'You mean you *won't* leave your husband.' Of course therapists are human too and the web of ideology that supports the idea of choice where there is none is huge. SR> And it is strange: that very submission SR> releases us from the literal. It's like once I give in, it sets SR> me free. Let go & let God as they say in AA. You have to give it to them, Stanley they were here before us! SR> Like them [Max & Engels] we are SR> wrestling on the edge of freedom and determinism. But we have SR> to emphasis determinism because everyone is so stuck on SR> freedom, ie positivism. I suppose, in a way, that was the same SR> for the early Marxists, would you say? Exactly parallel. There are utopian therapists who believe that just thinking something will make it so. [Material removed -- Ed.] SR> Freedom! That is the one thing we like to believe... SR> that in the imaginal world we are free. And talking of SR> flying..... That's the Icarus myth isn't it? Daedelus, his SR> father, reminded him of natural necessity: 'If you fly too SR> high, Icarus, Helios the Sun will melt the wax holding the SR> feathers to your wings.' But for Icarus everything was SR> possible. Ironically, his very sense of freedom and SR> invulnerability to necessity was exactly what determined his SR> fate. Great story, how it all fits with this discussion. Also with the idea of defying fate. Daniel designed a cafe for his school cert art. The Icarus Cafe. He was quite conscious even then that this was a cafe where young people could go in defiance of the mores of the elders. It no doubt had some rebellion against me in it, I am forever thinking that he hasn't got enough discipline or whatever to do this or that! He is out there in Japan at the moment no doubt compelled to prove me wrong. I'm sorry Daniel! I have just posted up a book review on The Virtual Community. I realised that their whole notion of 'free speech' and the notion of 'freedom' from the founding fathers is tied up with this. The American Dream. ^^^^^ [Material removed -- Ed.] SR> EDR is the necessary condition of VR. We can't escape that can we, and thus the whole of EDR is very crucial to VR. WL>> May we ride your tempests WL>> with love & joy WL>> tame your excesses WL>> with defiance, courage & artistry WL>> compensate your idiocy WL>> with compassion wisdom and power. WL>> May you not be too hard on us WL>> as we do what we have to do. SR> That is absolutely beautiful. Who wrote THAT ????? Aw shucks, just me Stanley. Mind you it was not me, it was an idea that gave birth to an idea . . . Gawd Save Her Majesty & may the Cosmic Breast be with you. SR> With V and ED Love V&EDL 2U2 Stanley. PS are you OK with me quoting from this whole discussion in the Psybernet Digest? -- END OF MESSAGE -- --++-=<*>****>>>>>0<<<<<****<*>=-++-- That is it. As i go to press (now a month or so later) Miles has entered the discussion & so has Ruby, it has become quite a wild rumpus and is still alive. The whole discussion will remain on in the message area for a while and then be archived in the Psybernet Main Library. ////////////////////////////////// / 3:-Psybernet News / ////////////////////////////////// Item. Reg Smith resigns as Sysop. Walter Logeman & Reg Smith have been jointly working in the capacity of Sysop since the board opened about one year ago. Due to the call of family, work, and thesis writing Reg has moved on. Reg will continue as a user and will facilitate the closure of the ALTERWORLD. Item. ALTERWORLD ended. We have had an area where we could use anonymous names. There have been powerful dramas enacted here, even though to some this has looked like a frivolous game to observers. God was challenged to be less distant! Small young and fragile 'alters' emerged in the safety of the anonymity. The Grim Reaper destroyed everyone. In the midst of the confusion grief and anger Reg is facilitating the closure. New experimental PsyberDramas are being planned. Item. Psybernet Statistics. The BBS has 400 messages in the Psybernet Echo. There have been 10 contributors to the Echo, however the bulk of the messages are by 5 main users. 51 users have requested validation, a further 50 users have not sought validation and are still on the list (they get purged after one month.) Of the 50 validated users 4 are women. Item. THERAPIST Echo is echoing slowly. Psybernet imports the THERAPIST Echo from David Johns board in Central Florida. The echo is for clinical discussion and restricted to practicing psychotherapists. The aim is that this Echo will complement the Psybernet Echo which is not restricted to therapists and which has no treatment focus. The traffic is slow, however there is potential! Item. Theatre & Stage under construction. A group is being planned that will use two message areas, the Theatre and the Stage. The idea is that in the Theatre a group interact and watch the event on the Stage. On the Stage people who are in the Theatre also interact, this time using aliases. It is not likely that there will be any anonymity, however there is the opportunity to explore a character fully. The group will be closed and run for a defined term and facilitated. Access: by enrolment for Full Subscribers. Item. A new voice in the Women's Conference This is a rumour as i am a man and i do not have access to the Women's Conference, but there is a new breath of youthful fresh air breezing in! ///////////////////////////////////////// / 4:-Editorial / ///////////////////////////////////////// --- Technology & Soul --- As Stanley said in the passage on 'Sick Ideas' >> We've seen how dissociated science has made the planet sick. << The whole of the Psybernet enterprise is to not dissociate technology, hardware or software and even the structures and names on the BBS from their roots. The aim is to see where this business of tele-computing fits into the whole history of media. To connect what we are doing with the search for soul. It may be a corny way of putting it but are the machines robots who subtly determine how we live? The challenge of Psybernet is to ask, answer and be creative around that theme. wl ///////////////////////////////////////// 5:-Psybernet Library Update ///////////////////////////////////////// The following items are clipped straight from the Psyfiles.zip file and are a sample of the files in the Psybernet Main Library. This is the beginning of what i hope will become a huge data base of material that is 'hand picked' from all over the place. The idea is that we only post up stuff we are likely to be interested in ourselves, and message about. That way the BBS has a 'meaningful' supply of information, and can be an oasis for people who are interested in this stuff. This is not a library where you will get overwhelmed by too much data, it is reviewed by people active in the Psybernet BBS. PSY&COMM.TXT 13279 30-05-94 This is an article I wrote at the very beginning of setting up Psybernet. It gives something of the background of the BBS. Here is a quote: == Soul == Soul, psyche, is what Psybernet serves. Cyberspace is a phenomenon within which the psyche lives, and Psybernet draws attention to the soul as it emerges here. We are thus part of reclaiming the word 'psychological', which in our culture has come to mean its opposite, anti-psychological, or anti-soul. In this respect I have learnt from James Hillman and archetypal psychology, who, too, re-vision psychology. To bring the approach of empirical science to the psyche is to lose it. PSYGLOSS.TXT 3722 18-01-94 The Psybernet Glossary -- a list of the terms used on the BBS. Lots of little snippets and some tips. Updated 30 May, 1994. Also has the Lexicon of Virtual Culture. Worth getting. Zipped version in the Psybernet Main Library. If you have items you want to add POST in a message and I will add. wl CYBER_GD.ZIP 59600 23-05-94 This is a list called Cyber Poet's Guide To Virtual Culture. I found it on an Internet Mailing list called Future Culture. I think it is a great source of info, though of course primarily for NET surfers, but good reading in its self if you are, interested in making *psychological* observations about the cyberworlds. There is a bibliography of note. also some nice little pictures. \o/ | / \ Walter. DEPTH.ZIP 83891 23-05-94 A collection of the correspondence in the old Depth Conference, threads on metaphor, Hillman, Suicide and Risk. To 28/8/93 DINO.ZIP 6745 23-05-94 Essay on the Dino craze W4W format. By Daniel Logeman. ECONOMY.ZIP 27791 23-05-94 The Economy of ideas, John Perry Barlow. From WiReD 2.04 . This is a classic bit of writing. At the time of posting this is being discused in a thread called 'infonomics' --- Walter. EJVCV2N1.ZIP 83871 30-05-94 The Electronic Journal of Virtual Culture Monitor. This particular issue is a guide to the Cultural topics on the internet. A worthwhile guide and has a set of frequently Asked Questions about Internet services. Perhaps we should make a separate library for these internet resources? EROS.ZIP 16254 23-05-94 An paper by Stanley Richards, on the perversity of Eros. I think it was first presented at a course in Jungian psychotherapy at the Albany Trust in Christchurch 1993. This is a temporary description until I hear from SR what he would like here!!! WL ETHOS.ZIP 20856 30-05-94 The content of the Ethos (of Psybernet) Conference before we incorporated most conferences into the Psybernet Main Conference. Discussions on ethics, the nature of this Psybernet etc. FEMINISM.ZIP 33570 25-05-94 WOMEN'S ACCESS TO ON-LINE DISCUSSIONS ABOUT FEMINISM Ellen Balka Memorial University of Newfoundland Abstract. While the use of computer networks has become increasingly popular in the last decade and research concerned with both women and technological change and the social implications of computer networking has proliferated, the use of computer networks by women, and the use of computer networks in the context of feminism, have seldom been subjects of FREE_AS_.ZIP 9471 30-05-94 Bruce Sterling's Speech to Librarians. Quote: Ladies and gentlemen, there's a problem with showing Mr Franklin the door. The problem is that Mr Franklin was *right* in 1731 and Mr Franklin is *still right!*. Information is not something you can successfully peddle like Coca-Cola GENDER.ZIP 11630 25-05-94 Gender Issues in Online Communications By Hoai-An Truong with additional writing and editing by Gail Williams, Judi Clark and Anna Couey in conjunction with Members of BAWIT -- Bay Area Women in Telecommunications Version no. 4.2 Copyright 1993 BAWIT ['bay- wit'], Bay Area Women in Telecommunications, is a group of women working with telecom, organized to discuss wl HARNAD.JNL 32508 18-05-94 Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1991 22:46:07 -0500 From: Revised List Processor (1.7a) Subject: File: "HARNAD PRV2N1" being sent to you Harnad, Stevan. "Post-Gutenberg Galaxy: The Fourth Revolution in the Means of Production of Knowledge." The Public-Access Computer Systems Review 2, no. 1 (1991): 39-53. This paper is a classic, it is about creating successful academic psychology in cyberspace. HARRIS.V2N 41543 18-05-94 Leslie D harris. The Psychodynamic Effects of virtual Reality. 1994. From the rather scholarly Electronic jourmnal Of Virtual Culture. wl I_F102.TXT 18317 08-05-94 All the files with the name I_F###.TXT are from the Ideas Fortes department from Wired magazine, this section often carries the articles of most interest to Psybernetting. The ones that I find interesting I write a message about. Each of the files has about three or so articles, They have to be distributed in toto to be legal, and they may also be of interest. This one has the Hot New Medium article, a eulogy on text! WL I_F204.TXT 14922 08-05-94 Has the great little article on the intimacy of text. Textacy, how is that for a concept? (My word -- but it sums up what the article is about. MINDPROB.ZIP 118832 22-03-94 Fairly accurate personality assessment. ///////////////////////////////////////// 6:-From the Psybernet BBS --- Serious, Moving & memorable ///////////////////////////////////////// --++-=<*>****>>>>>0<<<<<****<*>=-++-- Dreams, Speaking from the deep Songs of the night Dramas of the soul Awaken us. --++-=<*>****>>>>>0<<<<<****<*>=-++-- There is nothing to stop me entering the Cybernetic world using pseudonyms and taking on any personality I like. In some places that is encouraged. Such as in the echo for spouses of sexually abused people. In others it isn't allowed. I noticed it is prohibited in the NZ-COMMS echo. Even in these places people could cheat. Also there is a fine line between names and nick names, new names, akas etc. The question I have is to do with how we handle this in this echo, and also on this BBS. The question becomes interesting as I envisage Psybernet as an echo on perhaps several BBSs. The question is not a technical one nor even a pragmatic one but a musing on the nature of *personality*, that is the Psybernetic question. Also I contemplate the desirability of a culture where this is possible. --++-=<*>****>>>>>0<<<<<****<*>=-++-- On the theme of not being treatment oriented: I have a quote from C G Jung: The main interest of my work, is not concerned with the treatment of neuroses but rather with the approach to the numinous. But the fact is that the approach to the numinous is the real therapy and inasmuch as you attain the numinous experiences, you are released from the curse of pathology. Even the very disease takes on a numinous character. C G Jung, _Letters_ Vol 1 p377 --++-=<*>****>>>>>0<<<<<****<*>=-++-- I have been reading an interview with Michael Heim in MONDO 11. He is the author of 'The Metaphysics of Virtual Reality", here are some quotes. 'MH: Alternate Worlds Syndrome is when is when one aspect of the psyche remains in a virtual world when you return to primary reality or enter another virtual world ..... for example if you want to fly in the real world, and you point your finger as if you are in VR, you're not going to fly.' I have difficulty returning sometimes. Also have you ever had that feeling that you want to press the reset button when you are confused? --++-=<*>****>>>>>0<<<<<****<*>=-++-- Text is evocative: 'With jaws the size of a truck, the dinosaur munched the man and swallowed him.' Did you see that! It cost Spielberg millions to do that. Text is cheap. --++-=<*>****>>>>>0<<<<<****<*>=-++-- Give me text Once Hot lead type Now electrons on a wire painting dream images not on the screen faster than video in non-techno-colour bypassing the retina right into where I am somewhere in the landscape of my mind. --++-=<*>****>>>>>0<<<<<****<*>=-++-- In Zen, for example, there is a sense that events, psychic and physical simply happen: this sense is wonderfully portrayed in the Zen Haiku: The old mill pond A frog jumps in Plop! or Spring comes, And the grass grows By itself. Getting out of your own way like this, realising that the ego is a fiction, is terribly frightening to the Protestant Heroic Mind. --++-=<*>****>>>>>0<<<<<****<*>=-++-- ///////////////////////////////////////// 7:-Resources in Psyberspace --- Related lists, 'zines, places ///////////////////////////////////////// #: FROM: Mark Young Area # 5 ( Therapist ) TO: Michael Ellis MSG # 57, Nov-8-93 10:10pm SUBJECT: Re: The shy folks and oth -=> Quoting Michael Ellis to Mark Young <=- ME> list of the boards that now carry echo would be a real help. Some Mike, Thanks for your ideas and interest. I hope you are able to use the following: ================================================================== BBSes carrying THERAPIST echo (private/non-backbone) HOST: 1:139/960 (feeds available from other nodes w/ permission) ZONE 1 139/940 Intensive Care Unit BBS; Sysop: Ben Shaver 150/140 BlackBag BBS; Sysop: Ed DelGrosso 130/801 CONNECT! BBS; Sysop: Kelley Smith 109/432 Idea Link BBS; Sysop: Andy Miller 305/101 NASW-New Mexico; Sysop: Randy Scott 380/15 PsychoNominal BBS; Sysop: Sam Hutchison 229/432 Norse Pole; Sysop Eric Beck (node down?) 284/10 Plaza Communications BBS; Sysop: Harry Spicer 288/11 Buffalo Chip BBS; 2619/262 Michigan Winter BBS; (was 107/262) 2606/416 Beyond the Couch BBS 332/301 New Boondocks BBS ZONE 2 206/117 Limbic System (Sweden); Sysop Sigvard Lingh ================================================================== If you or your local sysop are interested in carrying this echo/conference, Contact Mark Young or David Johns. Peace, Mark ... Support your right to arm Bears! ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 --- MsgToss 2.0d(beta) 02/21/93 * Origin: Social Worker BBS (906)774-8555 Kingsford, MI (1:139/960) -- END OF MESSAGE -- --++-=<*>****>>>>>0<<<<<****<*>=-++-- +------------------------------------------------------------------------+ |11/26/93 THE SHRINK LIST(tm) | | National/International List of Psychology | | and Addiction Oriented BBSes | | | | The SHRINK LIST(tm) is verified on a monthly basis by modem. It is | | compiled as a service of the CFPF BBS. Updates will be released | | as new boards are added. If you know of any other boards that would be | | appropriate for inclusion in this list, netmail me with the following | | and hardware information. * Copyright 1991, 1992, 1993 David Johns * | +------------------------------------------------------------------------+ David Johns, Ph.D. Psychotherapist The Central Florida Psychology Forum BBS (Formerly Dr Shrink's Couch) 1:363/52.0@fidonet 2866 N. Powers Drive, Apt 159 Orlando, FL 32818 VOICE: (407)299-6386 --++-=<*>****>>>>>0<<<<<****<*>=-++-- ///////////////////////////////////////// 8:-Psybernet BBS & Echo --- The current description ///////////////////////////////////////// ============ Brief Introduction To Psybernet ============ Psybernet derives its name from Psyche and Cybernetics. Psyche is a Greek word for the soul and cybernetics is the art of information systems. The unconscious realms of the psyche, communication and relationship skills are all affected and evolving in cyberspace. Psybernet BBS and Echo aim to explore and experience this process. Psybernet Echo ============== Topics typically include psychotherapy, the unconscious, the imagination, archetypes, dreams, myths and metaphors, personal identity. There is an emphasis on working psychologically within the medium of cyberspace. Of wider appeal are discussions on literature and poetry, movies and music, relationships and parenting, gender issues, love, learning and everyday life. Discussion of treatment and recovery and of clinical issues is welcome, but these are not the main focus of the echo. The aim is to make the Echo as widely available as possible on BBSes that share something of the ethos associated with Psybernet. The Echo is available by arrangement. The Psybernet Bulletin Board ============== The Psybernet BBS is the home of The Psybernet Echo. A Women's Conference is available to women users only. The BBS specialises in message areas with restricted access for purposes such as clinical discussion, exploration of dreams, relationships, dramatic writing. A file library is being built on topics relevant to the board. Walter Logeman. ------------------== Contact points ==-------------- Psybernet, Walter Logeman (Sysop) Bulletin Board: +64-3-365-6876 Fidonet: 3:770/270 24hr Answer phone: +64-3-377-1206 Fax: +64-3-377-1207 Compuserve: 100026,3145 Internet wlogeman@nzonline.ac.nz